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I don't know if discussing this here will help at all but I do hope at least some stock artists see this.

Ever since I started doing book covers for authors, I have had to consider one more thing to look for in the stock rules, available for commercial use or not. Some stock providers say it is OK, some say you have to ask them first and others don't say anything. In cases of background stock, there is always an option to look for other stock images. When it comes to models, the characters on the covers have to be very precise so finding the right model is very difficult. So once I find the right one, I try to work it with the model as much as I can. In my one year of doing this, I have had several instances where the stock artists never got back to me or did that very late (a month or more). Now you don't expect the client to wait for that long for you so these replies are really no good after so long. I have also had an instance with one of the biggest and best stock providers on dA where I wrote to her at least 10 times both on her dA and facebook and got a couple of replies saying I'll get back to you but she never did.

If you don't allow commercial usage, you can always respond with a no so the artist can start looking elsewhere and not hang around hoping you'll say yes 'soon'. And I'm not even talking about people not being active on dA, I am talking about those who show some or a lot of activity on their accounts. This kind of behavior leads to people not taking their rules seriously or in my case avoiding their stock even for personal work. I really hope dA includes some feature where stock images have a straight no or a straight yes mentioning whatever the stock providers conditions are for commercial use.

If stock providers are reading this, it will be a great help to the entire community of photo-manipulation if they keep a few things in mind:

1. Mention whether you do or don't allow commercial use of your work.
2. If it is 'ask before using' then respond as soon as you can.
3. Mention your terms instead of asking the artist. If you want payment, say it. I like how straightforward stock providers like jasonaaronbaca are about the terms. No confusing the artist, straight $20 and other conditions.
4. Check the artist's gallery before responding if you are skeptical about how your image is going to be used. The quality of their work will give you an idea of what your image is getting into.
5. Mention the fastest way to get in touch with you in your rules. If you check your email more often than your dA notes, mention that.
6. Thanks to Dani-Owergoor for mentioning this. The same thing applies to use outside dA as well. Either mention it is fine to display artwork on FB, personal websites with so and so places or if it is 'ask before uploading' then respond in a timely manner.

I really hope this helps both stock providers and other artists to grow in their fields and also to be a loving community.
  • Mood: Hope
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:iconcathleentarawhiti:
CathleenTarawhiti Featured By Owner Nov 29, 2012  Professional Photographer
I've made mine very simple. Each stock image is free for personal use, or $20 (USD) for commercial use no matter what you are selling it as. Easy :)
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:iconla-chatte-noire:
la-chatte-noire Featured By Owner Nov 8, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
I hated vague or crazy rules when I was doing manips, that's why my own stock rules cover everything I can think of. Good article, I came here from ~Amliel
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:iconthedarkrayne:
TheDarkRayne Featured By Owner Nov 13, 2012  Professional General Artist
That's brilliant! Glad to see it reaching more stock artists. :hug:
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:iconmirengraphics:
mirengraphics Featured By Owner Nov 4, 2012
My stock is totally free. If you use it for commercial use I'd like a brief note, because I like to see what artists are doing with my stuff. The interesting thing is technically, once an 'unrestricted' stock photo is used commercially, the artist who did the commercial work pretty much owns the copyright on future use of said stock. It probably wouldn't come to it, but on a bestselling artwork, the commercial artist could quite reasonably sue to prevent any further use of said stock...on the grounds that it infringes on the artist's 'concept'. Its a slippery slope, I know, but lately the copyright trolls with their TDN's have become quite obnoxious. Anyway, until someone drops a TDN on me, my photos are free to use!!!
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:iconthedarkrayne:
TheDarkRayne Featured By Owner Nov 5, 2012  Professional General Artist
I just saw your stock and it is great. Definitely going to use some in near future.

Not sure how the law works here but doesn't the original image belong to you in any case unless it is modified to an extent in a photomanipulation or so?
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:iconmirengraphics:
mirengraphics Featured By Owner Nov 12, 2012
For the sake of argument, the photo is mine. A commercial calendar producer sells his/her calendar and the image is so popular it goes viral. I think to myself, hmmmm. A few bucks to be made here. I do my own calendar and it too does very well. Producer One issues a TDN to my ISP for Copyright infringement, and gets me blacklisted on Google et al. Legally, I have every right to produce my calendar, but PROVING the art is mine is expensive (could involve international legal systems), and that would be the only way to get Google to put you back in the good grace. Mind you, my photos are meta-tagged and I make sure I keep my cameras ect...but this issue has happened to others. I doubt I would concern myself about this too much. I tend to be generous and willing to turn the other cheek, but for some, this could be a tough row.
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:iconhjoranna:
Hjoranna Featured By Owner Nov 4, 2012
Two simple solutions. You can look for unrestricted stock, there are several groups and providers here on DA. Or you can just buy stock from a site that offers clear terms so there will be no confusion.
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:iconthedarkrayne:
TheDarkRayne Featured By Owner Nov 5, 2012  Professional General Artist
We're talking about a situation when we run out of both the options. There isn't a lot of liberty to use just any (esp. people) stock since it has to be very precise. And once you find something that is exactly what you were looking for, it sucks to not be able to use it due to a simple lack of communication.
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:iconamliel:
Amliel Featured By Owner Nov 4, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Your journal entry was pretty interesting and informative - I'll go and revise my stock rules as well. So be sure you changed something ;)

I do manips from time to time and just lately I requested a pic without a watermark. The artist said it would be fine and all but I never got the mail with the pic. Finally I chose another stock to finish my work but this was really annoying. So I pretty understand your "anger".

But I also have to agree with most stockers here: There are times you get a lot of requests from artists here and you answer them in the best way you can. But in the end in my case I can count on my two hands (!!!) how my artists gave me a last feedback if there work really released or what happened to it. And honestly, after some time this list of open requests really makes you tired. So I don't think you can blame stockers who just don't take requests serious any more becuase of this. We put a lot of afford in our photos and even if not all want to see money I think it's just respectful to tell the stock artist even if there will be no commercial use in the end because of I don't know what for reasons.

And there is one thing which may also contributes to this "laziness" to answer. I browse my name from time to time here on dA and - I don't know what was changed lately - but a few days ago I found more than 30 (!!!) artworks using my stock I was never told about. The oldest one being six years old. And those works where not only from artists you think they would never release a book cover or something but also early work from great artists with big audience and lots of commercial use. Honestly, if I see how careless people sometimes treat stock rules I don't wonder why we have this discussion at all. For a stocker it's the greatest payment to see the beautyful works their stocks are used for. And such a bad suprise is more than disencouraging - it makes you want to stop.
I know most people who answered here take stock rules seriously but I think artists should think about following stock rules as well. If stockers gets good feedback they will be more encouraged to answer and makes things possible.

Thank you Rayne for your time to mention this I hope it will make people - both stockers and artists think about a better way to communicate.
Reply
:iconthedarkrayne:
TheDarkRayne Featured By Owner Nov 5, 2012  Professional General Artist
I can understand your point. As it is frustrating for artists to not hear from stock artists, it must be the same other way around. As you said, both stockers and artists should think about a better way to communicate.
Reply
:iconnianluain:
NiAnluain Featured By Owner Nov 1, 2012  Professional Digital Artist
Problem is that 90% of the stock providers are doing it as a hobby, they don't look at it as a business. If they looked it as a business they would have a easy way of instant communication (e-mail should always be provided even in stalkers dot united at g mail dot com - people know how to do e-mails, those who dont are morons!) for us to contact them and in turn of the artist is professional a high res copy of the image (without fonts and with) is sent and if its a book then a copy forwarded on. Even if the image is free I'll send a donation! Costumes cost money, makeup costs money, they should get something back.

Now social media is FANTASTIC for stalking people who wont answer dA notes or e-mails. If you have their name you can always get them on FB and send a message that way - if its the case the client wants THAT image then you have to do everything in your power to get it for them.

Now a serious hobbyist who realizes there's cash (or not even, just the joy of being on a cover!) to be made off their images should really get this. If you have instant (or within 48-72 hours) contact then they are in the money (literally!). Yes we all have lives, yes we all have things on, yes it can go missing (repeat the e-mail after 3 days weekend allowance) but if you want to be on book covers, if you want to be on CD covers have access. dA notes if your online everyday is fine but most are not.

I only work with 5-6 stock artists off dA, the rest are a waste of time, effort and hassle.

E
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:iconthedarkrayne:
TheDarkRayne Featured By Owner Nov 5, 2012  Professional General Artist
I agree with you. Considering the experience I've had with different stock artists, I've mentally made a note of my favorites too.
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:iconnianluain:
NiAnluain Featured By Owner Nov 5, 2012  Professional Digital Artist
aye and its why I only work with 5 photographers as well lol! They are actually worse sometimes than absentee landlords! (Couldn't help that reference! :rofl: )
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:iconkaterina-art:
Katerina-Art Featured By Owner Oct 24, 2012  Professional Traditional Artist
Very well said renu excellent journal post :clap: early on I had experiences like that and feel some stock users are noy honest , what I do now is I send a message first I state in how I use my work commercially if they say no that's ok I move on but unless I hear back I don't use their stock ,I do agree with wish if someone has neglected their stock it's better to close their account instead of having people send messages and get no reply, if I had a stock my main rule would just be credit me or if there is a subject i dont comfortable being portrayed in state that clearly erything else it's the artists creation using my stock and its also great exposure to the stock model being used by a talented artist would die to have seen me in a book cover I mean that in a good way ;)
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:iconthedarkrayne:
TheDarkRayne Featured By Owner Nov 5, 2012  Professional General Artist
If you're willing to be a model, I am always looking for good ones for covers. ;)
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:iconkaterina-art:
Katerina-Art Featured By Owner Jan 4, 2013  Professional Traditional Artist
:blush: wish i was pretty enough for covers , you're so sweet to even consider you flatter me thank you sweety :hug:
happy new year to you all the best in 2013 :party:
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:iconthedarkrayne:
TheDarkRayne Featured By Owner Jan 10, 2013  Professional General Artist
Aww comeon! You'll make a great Rapunzel with that gorgeous hair of yours! :D

Happy new year to you as well hun. :hug:
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:iconkaterina-art:
Katerina-Art Featured By Owner Jan 10, 2013  Professional Traditional Artist
:blush: :hug: :heart:
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:iconexposethebeauty:
ExposeTheBeauty Featured By Owner Oct 22, 2012  Hobbyist Photographer
Do you check the license?

All of my work has a license attached to it. [link]

And it says in the details on the right under the word, "license"

"Some rights reserved. This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 License."
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:iconthedarkrayne:
TheDarkRayne Featured By Owner Nov 5, 2012  Professional General Artist
No I don't really. Thanks for mentioning that. Even if there is a license which clearly states that no commercial use is allowed, that is still fine. Atleast that way you don't have to sit around waiting for permission.
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:iconsmurlin:
smurlin Featured By Owner Oct 21, 2012  Hobbyist Photographer
As a newbie or casual stock artist, it's often quite difficult to just name a price, especially if you never dreamed anybody would even ask!

But I'd like to point out it goes both ways. I've locked down stock because somebody *might* purchase it, only to get no response for a year. After that long, I'm sure the book cover did not go through, the artist just didn't have the respect to get back to me.
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:iconthedarkrayne:
TheDarkRayne Featured By Owner Oct 21, 2012  Professional General Artist
I think your stock is beautiful. I have had a couple of people inquire about one of the artworks made with one of your stock image. You don't necessarily have to 'lock' the stock, as in don't have to offer exclusive use. And being at the receiving end of it, I think locking anything without any initial payment is just a bad idea.
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:iconsmurlin:
smurlin Featured By Owner Oct 21, 2012  Hobbyist Photographer
Thank you!

I completely agree - I've learned my lesson!
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:iconbranwen5:
branwen5 Featured By Owner Oct 20, 2012
Thank you so much for posting this. I've noticed in the past day or two that several stock accounts are being updated with very defined TOS regarding commercial use, including when, where and how usage is to be applied, fees (if any) and contact information.

As an author who traditionally publishes and also self publishes, and occasionally creates her own book covers, I appreciate when a stock provider will a) provide detailed usage information on their journal/profile regarding usage or b) answer my request for clarification of usage in a timely fashion. Even for those who so generously offer their stock up for free in commercial use, I like to get in touch with them so I can offer some type of compensation (membership upgrade, points, donation to stock fund, etc.) for their hard work. So responding to a message in a timely fashion (when possible) can offer several benefits for both sides.
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:iconthedarkrayne:
TheDarkRayne Featured By Owner Oct 21, 2012  Professional General Artist
True. I am happy to see this has reached quite a few good stock providers.
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:iconik-ben-10eke:
ik-ben-10eke Featured By Owner Oct 20, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
This is great, because I learn what problems can encounter when looking or waiting for stock. On my stock account I try to answer as soon as possible on specific questions - which is usually within 2 days. I am aware I was a bit behind last week, so it got up to 5 days :( I don't intend to say no to commercial uses but I want to, so I require to be noticed at least!
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:iconthedarkrayne:
TheDarkRayne Featured By Owner Oct 21, 2012  Professional General Artist
It is great that you try to keep up with it. Once in a while, everyone can be late.
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:iconik-ben-10eke:
ik-ben-10eke Featured By Owner Oct 21, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
Yep. But I am glad you pointed out the importance of it. One can easily forget about that ;) Again, thanks for that.
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:iconseerofendor:
SeerOfEndor Featured By Owner Oct 20, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Whew! What a relief to know that I'm not the only one who gets frustrated by this!
I've pretty much given up on using stock that requires you to "ask first" in pieces that I want to use commercially or off-site because most of the times I've asked I've had the same experiences yall have.
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:iconthedarkrayne:
TheDarkRayne Featured By Owner Oct 21, 2012  Professional General Artist
Good to see this is reaching atleast some stock providers so we expect to see an improvement.
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:iconmagikstock:
magikstock Featured By Owner Oct 20, 2012  Student Photographer
I am guilty of this as well, but as other stockers point out this isn't a full or even part time job. I have two jobs and I am preparing for grad school. So, sometimes I can't respond to messages or I forget. I know this is a job for a lot of people, and I do try to respect that and be on top of everything. However, sometimes life interferes. I feel terrible when I see a note has been left for weeks, but it's not because I ignore them it's just time gets the better of me :( I try and check every day to see if there is a urgent issue, but if I get a untitled message I don't know what it is about. :(

I also agree with :iconliam-stock: this issue can be turned around at the Artists not replying as well. I have the same problem with artist not sending me back messages or telling me when the item is released. Also, with the emails. I will never ever post my email directly on deviantart. If someone asks for it or if there is more communication needed for a project I will give it out. I am so afraid to post it on deviantart I already get creepy messages and notes I don't need them sent directly to my email.

It's also frustrating as a stock artist when you post on your page your gone or on vacation and may be late with replies, and people are rude about you not responding immediately. I had several really angry people who sent me nasty notes while I was traveling last year. It was frustrating for me as I thought I did the right thing by stating it would take time for me to respond. I kept having to tell people " As I stated in my journal I am traveling and may not respond in a timely manner. I am sorry for the late reply but I am traveling" I even shut down my free stock a few times since I wasn't able to respond, but it doesn't slow down notes or messages.

I know that late replying is the bane of artists existence, but I feel that this is a issue that goes both ways. We need to all communicate better, and also be more understanding of each others needs.
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:iconthedarkrayne:
TheDarkRayne Featured By Owner Oct 20, 2012  Professional General Artist
I do agree with you on everything that you said. For stock providers like yourself who get a lot of notes, maybe write down answers to a list of FAQs in your rules. Like, if you get a lot of requests for commercial use, maybe just write down what your terms are in the rule or if a lot of people ask to upload stuff on facebook, just mention in your rules that you don't allow it or you do with credit or whatever your terms are. This will certainly help reduce the amount of notes piling up. Not sure if you have done this already, but if you haven't then it is worth considering.
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:iconmagikstock:
magikstock Featured By Owner Nov 4, 2012  Student Photographer
:)
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:iconmagikstock:
magikstock Featured By Owner Oct 20, 2012  Student Photographer
I also understand that you would like stockers to amend our rules, but I already feel bogged down by my rules. I feel I am always having to add things to them. I hate it! I wish I could just have a few rules and not have it be pages and pages :(
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:iconaustriaangloalliance:
I changed my rules just this morning before seeing this - I always say yes to commercial - although I want to be told via a note - but I have added a sentenencesaying if I the artist can't get hold of me that they should go ahead and rely on the fact that I will read the note later - after all, sometimes I just need a holiday and can't reply to notes as quickly as I would like to :-)
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:iconthedarkrayne:
TheDarkRayne Featured By Owner Oct 21, 2012  Professional General Artist
That is brilliant. This way artist doesn't have to sit around waiting in case you can't respond in a timely fashion, yet you get the notification whenever you get to read it the earliest.
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:iconaustriaangloalliance:
I hope it makes it easier - I don't want to place any obstacles in the way of creativity :-) (and earning money from art!)
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:icontasastock:
Tasastock Featured By Owner Oct 20, 2012  Hobbyist Photographer
im afraid i was guilty of this, mainly cause its bloody tough to keep up with the amount of messages you get in one day, let alone in a week sometimes.
i have changed my rules since i came back off my break from DeviantArt. am hoping it does make it easier for artists as you say. still, one stocker, many artists, easy to get behind. but since its only the model stock im bothered about, which is now the only stuff that is restricted for outside use, im hoping my message center wont get out of control again.
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:iconthedarkrayne:
TheDarkRayne Featured By Owner Oct 21, 2012  Professional General Artist
I understand you have such a huge variety of very awesome stock so I'm sure you must get a lot of notes asking for permission. Have you considered allowing people to upload their manipulation on personal pages like facebook, personal website and stuff with maybe a condition of crediting you? That will certainly ease out the notes overflow.
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:icontasastock:
Tasastock Featured By Owner Oct 21, 2012  Hobbyist Photographer
ive done that for all other stuff other than my model stock. 'cause i provide nude stock aswell, i dont wanna randomly come across a picture of me plastered all over someone's website. someone used my stock for their graphics for a mimic of a Hot or Not website. that was abit degrading.
basically the only permission they need now is for model stock, so no landscape or the dove stock (can i use this on ponybox?) stuff, just model stuff and anything commercial. and i do seem to get less notes.
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:iconthedarkrayne:
TheDarkRayne Featured By Owner Oct 21, 2012  Professional General Artist
Hot or Not... hate stuff like that! :stab:
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:iconliam-stock:
liam-stock Featured By Owner Oct 20, 2012  Hobbyist Photographer
Thank you for this journal. It's very important to bring this problem up. I know it because I'm one of those absent stockers. It's very easy for me to to accept this but it isn't easy to improve. After seven years of providing stock I have a big audience. In these seven years I wasn't an active community member all the time. Sometimes I was away for some months but often this wasn't my intention. I'm feeling very guilty because of every artist who got in trouble because of my late answers. Sometimes I was thinking about deleting my stock packs just because I didn't had the time to answer to consumers. I also know this problem as an artist so I'm also depend on the stockers. But as a stocker I know that a stock provider has also problems with commercial projects. There are so many notes or emails where artists request for commercial use. Some of them are easy to answer. But most time we don't even get the information we need to decide. I gave permission for huge projects (e.g. book covers or calendars) and got a compensation for this. Sometimes it's just possible to get a credit. Sometimes I get nothing. This depends on the project. I give permission to every kind of projects because everybody should have the chance to use my stock. I wrote in my rules that the artists should give me some information about the projects but there are just a few who follow that rule.
I also do some background and objects stock on my other stock account ~sacral-stock and it's easy for me to allow commercial use for all of these stocks. But model stock is a kind of tricky. Your face on a book cover or calender? As a model you want to know where your face is on.
I totally agree with you. That's a big problem and it would be great if more stockers would read this journal.
Besides I just want to mention that it's also a problem if stockers give their permission for commercial use and artists don't send a message when the projects realeses. I have a huge list of answered requests and never got a message of the result. It's sad for me that I take a lot of effort to provide this stock and doesn't have the chance to see which way it goes.
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:iconthedarkrayne:
TheDarkRayne Featured By Owner Oct 20, 2012  Professional General Artist
Thank you for understanding. I think it is both the artist's and stock provider's job to keep their promise.

Btw, I am still waiting for your permission. Not sure if you got my last note.
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:iconliam-stock:
liam-stock Featured By Owner Oct 20, 2012  Hobbyist Photographer
Ich will browse my inbox!
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:iconpattipix:
PattiPix Featured By Owner Oct 20, 2012  Professional Digital Artist
I occasionally work with models to provide stock - it is important that a model release is signed - if you photograph anyone and post them as stock with out a model release - the stocker can not give permission to use the images - Always be sure that if they say yes to using a model image they do have the model release and they can send you a copy!! doing commercial work can be tricky with models... I have made it a practice to get a signed model release for every shoot - no matter what - and if the model is under 18 I have a parent sign it - before I take a single photo -
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:iconthedarkrayne:
TheDarkRayne Featured By Owner Oct 21, 2012  Professional General Artist
Yes, that is an important point to keep in mind.
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:iconlusete:
lusete Featured By Owner Oct 19, 2012  Hobbyist Photographer
frustrating.. hence why started using my own stock and doing commercially available stock.
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:iconthedarkrayne:
TheDarkRayne Featured By Owner Oct 21, 2012  Professional General Artist
That's the best thing! :D
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:iconhermitcrabstock:
HermitCrabStock Featured By Owner Oct 19, 2012
I totally agree with you (I'm a stock user too). It is the reason why I tried to do clear rules: [link] For the models, it is more difficult: I must ask the permission first to the model itself, it is the reason you may ask me the permission first, but I always answer quickly to the notes I receive (except when I'm in hollidays: it may then take a week or two). But I'm not a big models provider. :(
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:iconthedarkrayne:
TheDarkRayne Featured By Owner Oct 21, 2012  Professional General Artist
I love your stock. Knowing that you respond in a timely fashion is great!
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October 18, 2012
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